Steve Lodder on 2 Sorts Of 3

Renowned for his expressive style as a pianist, composer and arranger, Steve Lodder has become an important figure of the British jazz scene. With a creative approach to genre and innovation, his work has taken him from solo albums to incredible collaborations such as ARQ (the Alison Rayner Quintet), and earned him a respected place on the modern jazz landscape.

I was delighted to talk to Steve about his roots in classical study and the organ, the idea behind the his new album 2 Sorts of 3, and how his twelve original compositions naturally fell into both ‘plugged’ and ‘unplugged’ sets...

What was your journey into music like?

My parents bought a piano when I was about six. I’d been to see my cousin, played their piano, and really enjoyed it. We used to play this game together called ‘Giants and Fairies’: someone was at the top whilst someone was down the bottom, and then there would be these excursions into the middle. It probably sounded absolutely dreadful, but it was really fun – and it introduced me to playing the piano and telling a story at the same time. My parents put a piano upstairs where I had lessons from seven, and it went from there really. I can remember getting rid of that piano: Dad decided to get a new one to put downstairs, and to move the old one, he took the upstairs window out and dropped the piano from the first floor onto the garden… I can still remember that noise, it’s one of my earliest aural memories. Of course, there’s a Charles Ives piece where a piano gets broken up, so it’s not a bad influence to have! 

My piano teacher took me straight through the grades, without many pieces in between to break it up. But in all that while, to get some relief from the exam technique and reading, I would sit down at the piano and just play. First it would be improvisations, and then it became more formalised. I spent time learning the organ, as well as the violin, so I was being really stretched classically. And then I became assistant organist at the parish church, and part of that involved improvising which I just loved. You have all these interludes whilst the vicar moves from one part of the church to the other, and you just have to fill that time with some nice music whilst he does it. So improvisation has always been there. I went to Cambridge with an organ scholarship so I was playing at church six days a week, but it was such a good form of training, and a total immersion in making music very practically. 

This album sounds like it has a really unique premise. Can you tell me a little bit about it?

That was just the way that the tunes came out. Some people have a very close control as to how that happens, and that’s not the case with me. A tune will just emerge, and I kind of have to ask it various questions like ‘what do you want to be called?’, and ‘what instruments do you want to be played on?’. Having already done a solo piano album and an electric funk record, I thought I might complete the musical palette by having a piano trio. But I experienced an element of self-doubt with that, so reflected on having a change of texture here and there. That idea led to the one about having different players, and I came up with the option of having one unplugged acoustic trio, and one plugged electric trio. It all aligned from that really, because each tune then fell into a particular camp and it was kind of obvious as to which ones were destined to be electric or acoustic. 

The players fell into place easily too: I’ve known Dudley Phillips and Nic France for years and years, and I just felt so comfortable with those two. Much more came out than I was expecting, performing with those players, and it went above what I anticipated. The other trio was slightly newer: the drummer Marius Rodrigues I just really admire with his light touch that still keeps a sense of energy – something that just really works for the piano trio. Along with that, my cousin, the one I played piano with as a child, has a grandson named Freddie Jensen, who attended Chetham's and has participated in BBC Young Jazz Musician of the Year twice. He’s a fantastic player, and growing up he would come round and play double bass. By the time he was seventeen, I remember thinking that he didn’t really need much more – he was more than capable of going out and playing, which is exactly what he’s doing now alongside his PhD in Maths. He’s a joy to play with, so that was a really nice discovery. 

Was there anything particularly unique about having this double lineup? 

Well, given that there were two lineups on the album, I came up with the idea of having one tune that both ensembles would play. So those are the opening and closing tracks ‘Into the Water’ and ‘Out of the Water’. Both have exactly the same chord progressions and the same tune, but a very different feel. The tune sounds entirely different with each ensemble playing it. 

Did you feel a heavy sense of expectation because the trio format has got such a traditional heritage? Was that compelling, as well as challenging?

I found it scary! The more that you listen to so many great trios, as well as the great ‘greats’, the more you realise what a huge undertaking it is. Making a trio album that can then be compared with those other ones did make me nervous, and did probably prompt me to lean towards the more electronic side of things as well. Reflecting on amazing players like Chick Corea, Keith Jarrett, and over the last ten years the new artists that have emerged, the number of utterly fantastic trio albums that have come out is staggering. 

I think it’s a really interesting time for jazz, actually. I’m really fortunate to have a son who is completely immersed in all that jazz development at Trinity Laban at the moment, and it’s a really exciting time I think for jazz education. 

Where does the album art come from? Does it link to the music?

Well, this works as the smoothest link possible, because my son who I just mentioned that’s studying at Trinity, painted the album cover! It stemmed from an idea I’d had to portray all the tracks in a painting. There are two main characters, a rather suave elephant with a cup of tea to reflect ‘An Elephant In Paris’, and a rather party-like komodo in a kimono to link to ‘Komodo's Kimono’. But in the background, all the other tracks are represented somewhere, so if you look, you should be able to spot them all! 

Do you see the double-trio format as something you’d like to revisit, or was it unique to this moment?

I think it’s a unique moment. I’ve had a bunch of tunes that have been very electronic in nature that were running alongside, and thought perhaps about doing it as a double album. But I don’t think it would work as well like that, so that’s going to be the next thing. It relates to what I was saying about how the tunes come out and what sort of tune it wants to be. A lot of the work for those is done on the computer, and it’s tremendous fun, so who knows what I’ll be able to do with those.

How are you celebrating the album’s release?

There’s a matinee gig over at Pizza Express on Dean Street on Saturday 17th January 2026. Dudley, Nick and Freddie are playing, but Marius is over in Japan at the moment so it would be a bit of a commute! So the incomparable Rod Youngs is doing it, and hopefully it will be a really celebratory occasion!

2 Sorts of 3 is available now on CD and Streaming & Download.